Date of Interview: 11-22-13 Interviewee: Michael Carrier Interviewer: CJ Kuzner

Date of Interview: 11-22-13

Interviewee:  Michael Carrier

Interviewer: CJ Kuzner

CJ: First of all, my name is CJ Kuzner. The date is the 22^nd of November 2013. Interestingly, this is the fiftieth anniversary of the assassination of President Kennedy. That, however, is not the subject of this interview. It is 10:15 a.m., and I am sitting across a small table from author Michael Carrier. He has just written a new book. It is entitled “Superior Peril.”  First of all, what does that title mean? Are you using “Superior” as an adjective, or a proper noun?

Michael: I suppose you could say both. The story is set in Michigan’s upper peninsula, which is bordered on the north by Lake Superior—hence, Superior. And the story does involve a couple Lake Superior shipwrecks—one being the Edmund Fitzgerald, which went down during a huge storm in 1975. And another shipwreck—that of the Mino, which sunk in 1787 BC, also during a large November storm.

CJ: I’m glad you brought that up so quickly—the shipwreck in 1787 BC. The last I checked, we still celebrate Columbus Day on the second Monday of October. Columbus set sail for the Americas over 2700 years later. Are you suggesting that Columbus did not actually discover America?

Michael: I don’t think that the word “discover” really works in any discussion of early America. Not even when considering the achievements of Amerigo Vespucci. No one disputes the fact that there already existed a sizeable indigenous population in the Americas well before the 15^th century AD.

CJ: But when you write about the Mino, you’re moving it back another 2700 years. Are you saying that North America was populated even at that time?

Michael: It is generally accepted that by 10,000 BC people were living in the Americas. Scholars do not agree on much of anything for periods earlier than that, however.

CJ: So, if most scholars agree that the Americas were populated as early as 10,000 BC, what makes the discovery of the Mino so controversial?

Michael: Of course, the book is fiction. Therefore, it follows that the existence and subsequent discovery of the Mino are also fictional. But the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald is real.

CJ: But in Superior Peril, one of the themes you develop is the controversy that such a discovery [the Minoan shipwreck] could be legitimate. Why would the existence of a Bronze Age shipwreck be significant? I should tell you right now that I loved the book. I started it last Monday afternoon, right after we set up this interview, and I couldn’t put it down. I finally got to sleep at two in the morning. It is a very good read.

Michael: I thank you for that. There are two things that make the discovery of the Mino significant. First of all, the geography. The Mino sank only a short distance from where Big Fitz went down. That was just about on the US/Canadian border, directly north of Whitefish Point—in Lake Superior, of course. The Mino was an ocean-going vessel. And at 65 feet, it was much larger than anything the indigenous peoples would have been using at the time. So how did it get to that particular geographical point?

CJ: And the second? You said there were two aspects about the Mino that made its discovery significant. Geography was one of them. What was the second?

Michael: The design of the ship was Minoan. The Minoans were, after all, the principal international traders at the time. But most scholars do not think it possible that their trading extended so far west.

CJ: When I read the book I couldn’t help but think about Gilligan’s three-hour tour—on, of all things, the Minnow. I would assume there is no connection there?

Michael: You assume correctly. In fact, I did not even think about Gilligan until after I had come up with that name, the Mino, for Captain Titiku’s ship. But, it seemed a very logical name for a Minoan ship. So I stuck with it.

CJ: Back to your story. It starts out with two people who are making a bomb. We don’t run into those people again—not in the whole book. At least I don’t think we do. What happened to them?

Michael: Well, we sort of do encounter them when the SUV blows up.

CJ: Right. I did draw that connection. But when the book ends, do we really know who those people are?

Michael: I don’t want to give too much away regarding the end of the book. Let me just ask you this. When you finished reading it, were you not satisfied with the ending?

CJ: Actually, I was. In fact, I think the conclusion was quite delicious. But it was as though I had just finished the main course, and wanted to order desert.

Michael: That would be Superior Intrigue—the next book in the series.

CJ: Oh, I get it. The ten percent that didn’t get answered in “Superior Peril” is treated in “Superior Intrigue.” Is that it?

Michael: Again, you assume correctly.

CJ: Then I can’t wait to read the next book. I’m still a little angry at the people who blew up Robby and his mother. I trust Jack is going to punish them?

Michael: You’ll just have to check back in February. “Superior Intrigue” comes out in February.

CJ: And the next one—after “Superior Intrigue.” Is it going to be called “Superior Something Else?”

Michael: Actually, the title of the book coming out after “Superior Intrigue” is “Sugar Island Girl Goes Missing in Paris.”

CJ: So, can I assume that all the mystery surrounding Robby will be wrapped up before then?

Michael: When you read the next book you will have all your questions answered with regard to Robby’s mother and father.

CJ: That’s all I need to know; at least about that. I do have a question about the Jack Handler series. After I read “Murder on Sugar Island,” which is the second book of the series, while I was waiting for the next book, I went back and read the first one, “Jack and the New York Death Mask.” Wow, that was certainly different. Jack and Kate were the same people, but the surroundings were different. Chicago, New York City and Washington DC are nothing like Michigan’s upper peninsula.

Michael: I spent a number of years in New York. I’ve also lived in Chicago. I still like going back to those cities. They are two of the most fascinating places I have ever been. It was just logical that Jack would be familiar with those places.  

CJ: Then you like to write about places you are familiar with?

Michael: I have to have a connection—smell the air, touch the soil, be able to dream there.

CJ: What’s your connection with the Upper Peninsula? I think you were originally from Lower Michigan.

Michael: I was born in the Lower Peninsula, and then moved out east to study. I then moved back to Michigan—again in the Lower Peninsula. Grand Rapids, to be specific. And now I have moved to Paradise, over by Whitefish Point.

CJ: What, then, is your fascination with the Upper Peninsula? You have published two books already based in the Upper Peninsula, and have at least two more on the way. Do you have some connection with the north country?

Michael: I was the baby of my family. I had six brothers and sisters. Almost every night when I went to bed, my dad would tuck me in. When he came in the room I would slide over so he could lie down on the blanket, and I would ask him to tell me a story. And he would tell me stories about life in Upper Michigan.

CJ: So, your father was from Upper Michigan? Was he born up there?

Michael: I’m not sure where he was born, but from the time he was ten years old, until well after he married my mother, he lived in the Upper Peninsula.

CJ: His father, your grandfather, worked in Upper Michigan?

Michael: My father’s name was John Carrier, and his father’s name was Sherman Carrier. From what I learned from my father, my grandfather was good at four things, and I will list them in descending order. Sherman Carrier was best at showing love to my father. My dad said that whenever his father was sober, he was the best dad a boy could ever imagine. Which brings me to my grandfather’s second-best talent. He could drink any of his peers under the table. He was an alcoholic. His third attribute was fighting. My grandfather got into fights on a daily, or nightly, basis. I’m sure that had something to do with his alcoholism. And his fourth strength—lumberjacking. My dad said that his father was an excellent lumberjack. Apparently he never drank during the day, only at night.

CJ: How did that work out? If your grandfather was a lumberjack during the day, and a bar fighter at night, did your father live with your grandmother?

Michael: My grandmother was out of the picture entirely, at least until she moved in with us much later in life. My dad lived in the camps with his father.

CJ: Did he attend school?

Michael: He certainly did. My grandfather saw to that, most of the time. When my grandfather was around, he would see to it that my father made it to school. When he wasn’t around, my father lived with his cousins, and they took him to school. He quit school in the eighth grade, and went to work. But up until that time he attended school regularly. He said that during those years he changed schools over thirty times.

CJ: Why so many schools?

Michael: His father moved a lot. Dad said that he would show up at his school and pull him out. He would have been involved in some sort of trouble the night before, and would have to leave the area. And that fighting thing passed on to my father. My dad said that with every change in schools, he had to fight all the tough kids at the new school. He said that it was the fighting that proved to be his strongest memory from school.

CJ: So your father also was a fighter? Did he have a problem with alcohol?

Michael: As a child my father fought when he had to. But he never abused alcohol—in fact I never saw him take a drink. So the fighting thing wasn’t a problem for him. He was, however, a moonshiner during his lumber camp years. He made a lot of money selling whiskey. But he didn’t drink it.

CJ: You said your dad went to work after he quit school. And you mention camps. I suppose you mean lumber camps? What could he do in a lumber camp at that age?

Michael: He worked in the camps as a lumberjack.

CJ: How old was he?

Michael: My father was totally on his own when he was thirteen. He had a team of horses, and pulled the logs out of the woods.

CJ: At thirteen?

Michael: One thing about my father is that he never lied. And he was not a bragger. He told me on several occasions that at the age of thirteen the boss gave him the best team they had, the biggest and strongest horses, and he out-performed everyone else in the company.

CJ: Where was this? Where did he work?

Michael: Mostly in the Newberry area. And Seney. And he had stories about the Betsy River. That’s well east of Newberry. But I don’t remember the specifics of his stories regarding the Betsy River. From what I can recall, mostly he worked in the Newberry area.

CJ: What years would that have been?

Michael: I don’t know exactly, either I don’t remember the exact years, or he didn’t tell me. But he was born in 1901. And by 1914 he was working in the camps. 

CJ: How long did this last?

Michael: He met my mother on a trip to Muskegon (MI) in 1922, and they married that same year. And right after they were married, he took his bride back to the U.P., and he worked in the camps there, again that would have been the Newberry area, I think, until after they had three children. It was at that point they moved back to Muskegon. So I would say that he worked as a lumberjack from 1914 until right up until the depression. When he moved to Muskegon he bought a dump truck and delivered coal. And eventually he started a business. But he spent a good twenty-five years in the Upper Peninsula lumber camps.

CJ: So the stories your father told you at night formed the basis of your Upper Peninsula connection?

Michael: Absolutely. It has always been my desire to live where my father grew up. 

CJ: So you now live in the Upper Peninsula?

Michael: The day we sold our private security business in Grand Rapids, we bought a house in Paradise. And that is now our official residence.

CJ: That was fascinating. I think we need to end this interview at this point. But could we come back to it, maybe after the next book comes out?

Michael: I would love to.